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Last updated on August 30, 2021Roilmage’s Trick | Illustration by Johann BodinCards are kind of important in Magic, believe it or not. It is a trading card game after all. And the cards that you play with in paper Magic, the ones you buy at your LGS, are printed by WotC. I mean, they’re outsourced to a printing press, but you get my point. Official cards are made and distributed by our Wizard what about cards that are printed by a third party? I’m obviously talking about proxies. It’s in the title, I’m sure you’re not surprised. Proxies are a lot of things. They can be fun, but they’re controversial. In some cases, they’re even a little bit necessary. I don’t know about you, but I certainly can’t afford a large majority of cards from Magic’s past that go for hundreds, thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of dollars. The reserved list ensures that a lot of them will probably never go for much less, but that’s neither here nor what is a proxy? Where can you get them? What’s the different between a proxy and a counterfeit card? I’m here to answer all of your questions on the topic. So, without further ado, let’s get started! So, What Is a Proxy? The Fun Stuff: Ethics and Legality“Official” ProxiesGetting Your Hands on ProxiesMake Them YourselfProxy SitesProxy Photoshop and PDF TemplatesWhere to Buy Mini-ReviewHow to Make Special ProxiesFoilsTokensProxy CubePowering Down ProxiesSo, What Is a Proxy? Easy Prey | Illustration by Ekaterina BurmakI’m so glad you asked! Proxies are basically just homemade copies or stand-ins for MTG cards. There’s a pretty wide range for how to make a “proxy. ”Some people just write the name and abilities on a piece of paper covering a reversed card in a sleeve, some write the name of a card on the back of a bulk card like basic lands, and many people just print out the card in question. The latter is the type of proxy I wanna talk about inted proxies might have different art, different abilities, or just be a straight up custom card that doesn’t exist in Magic. They also might just be a homemade version of a card that’s not feasible to get. Think the infamous Black Lotus. Some players also use them for more “authentic” playtesting of decks before they spend crazy amounts of money on them. Obviously, you can’t use proxies in just any scenario. They’re perfect for kitchen table Magic, but anywhere outside of your own playgroup is either a straight up “no” or a “probably not. ” It’s always best to check and make sure first in any case, but anything competitive or even vaguely non-casual is a heavy “almost definitely not. ”Proxies aren’t legal in MTG, and depending on how they’re made, they sometimes skirt the line of legal in general. Counterfeit cards and proxy cards aren’t technically the same. There is a distinction, but it can be a bit of a grey Fun Stuff: Ethics and LegalityTrue Conviction | Illustration by Ekaterina BurmakHere’s the thing with proxies. There is technically a difference between proxy and counterfeit cards, but some people kind of use them interchangeably. Or they think a counterfeit card is actually a proxy card, or vice versa. It can get really messy sometimes, so let me clear the air before we get any cards shouldn’t be indistinguishable from their official counterparts. That’s basically the main thing that separates proxies from counterfeits. If your proxy is very official-looking and it’s hard to tell that it’s a proxy, you’re getting into dangerous territory. I’ve talked about this before, so I’m basically just gonna say the same thing here as I did can’t just make MTG cards to sell or distribute. WotC owns the rights to the card’s artwork, either through first printing rights (most likely) or full purchased rights (less likely). Look-a-like Magic cards just for personal use are already toeing the line. Any printing service that knows what it’s doing will refuse to print Magic cards for you because they know that it’s copyrighted material and can’t print it without being said, do I think Wizards is going to bust down your door because you printed a realistic-looking playset of the Power 9 to use at your kitchen table games? Probably not. Almost definitely not, actually. They might step in if you try to use them at your LGS or a DCI-sanctioned event, but personal use just isn’t worth their time or ’s all the legal jargon, but what about ethics? Greater Good | Illustration by Mathias KollrosUsing proxies in casual, everyday Magic is fine. What happens at your kitchen table games with your friends is between you and them. There is something to be said about the snowball effect of proxies. If it becomes a normal thing to proxy insanely expensive and powerful cards, you’re all probably going to end up doing it. Does it eventually lead to you proxying all Magic cards, even those that are easy to get your hands on and relatively cheap like current Standard sets? That’s going to end up in actual losses not just for WotC (boohoo), but likely for your LGS as alistically, I think proxies are ethically fine when it comes to anything on the reserved list, as a start. Basically any card that is just about impossible to find or wildly expensive if you ever do manage to find it. When it comes to any singles that you could potentially find at an LGS? I’m no longer on board, and you shouldn’t be either. LGS’ have enough problems competing with Wizards and their online discounts, alternatives, incentives, etc. They don’t need to be competing with proxies, you feel the need to hide your use of proxies, you’ve already got your answer as to whether or not you should be using them. I just don’t think you’re gonna like it. “Official” ProxiesTournaments are a whole other bag. Any non-official cards are, I’m sure you guessed, not allowed in competitive play. DCI-sanctioned events will sometimes have judges print proxies if a card is accidentally damaged. Spill some water on the table? Proxy. Cards fall off the table and get squished? Proxy. Got tilted and shuffled your poor cards into a bent mess? Maybe try taking a few deep breaths before you ruin all your other decks. “Accidentally” is also important there. Don’t go splashing water everywhere or throwing your cards around just cause you want a proxy. I’m not sure why you’d ever do that anyway, but I had to say tting Your Hands on ProxiesNow that I’ve gotten all the downers out of the way, let’s get to the fun stuff. How do you make proxies, where can you get them, how to print them, Them YourselfWhirlermaker | Illustration by Victor Adame MinguezThe first and potentially easiest way to get proxies is to make them yourself. There are sites out there that will do the formatting for you. All you need is a printer, paper, ink, and some scissors! If you wanna get fancy there are some other supplies that will make your proxies prettier or nicer to hold, but those are the we get to the sites, the printer is kind of important. Any old printer will get the job done but it might not be what you’re expecting. Some printers are better than others in general, of course, but what’s the best printer for proxies? Inkjet printers are generally hailed as good options. If you want to really step up your game, though, laser color printers will be your best SitesWhen it comes to proxy sites, I actually had some trouble finding a good one. My recommendation is going to go to MTG site is easy to use, intuitive, and they’ve got a bunch of options you can mess with for your proxies. You can print a whole deck at once which is great. They’ve also got an easy dropdown menu where you can choose which version of each card you want to print. And their website is nice to look at, which isn’t super important but it gets a stamp of approval from me you’re looking to make completely custom cards or want to use your own art, there are other Photoshop and PDF TemplatesValki, God of Lies | Illustration by Yongjae ChoiYou could just use Photoshop if you’re already familiar with it. PDF templates give you something to work with, and you can find plenty of them online. They’re not even that difficult to make yourself if you’ve got a bit of there’s Magic Set Editor, which looks pretty cool. You can use it to design your own cards to print or share online. It’s also got a stats window, which will give you some info about the cards you’ve designed like average mana cost, how many rares there are, and more. It lets you export to an HTML file, Apprentice, or CCG Lackey if you wanna play with them online. You can’t export high quality images, so this might not be the best option for you depending on what you want to do with to Buy ProxiesIf you don’t have a printer, don’t want a printer, or just don’t want to print proxies yourself, you can buy them. This is where you might get into some slippery slopes in terms of proxies versus counterfeits and the ethics of the whole thing, but I went over that already so we’ll just move on to some options for could also try your hand at eBay, Etsy, or even Reddit. Plenty of people have the means to print really nice looking and feeling proxies. eBay might get a little weird and counterfeit-y, though, so be careful over there. Etsy is a good spot, but you’ll probably have to provide the seller with the file you want printed. Reddit has some general proxy subs, and there are some for MTG proxies specifically, Mini-ReviewI got some samples from to get a feel for their proxies, so I can actually tell you what I think of their stuff. I will say before I get into the cards that I don’t like their website. It’s not particularly user-friendly and is a bit annoying to navigate. It’s honestly not the worst I’ve ever encountered, so it at least gets points for ’ve got some playsets which is pretty cool and definitely a plus, just wanted to mention that. I ended up getting five cards: Black Lotus (because of course I did), Ensnaring Bridge, Grim Tutor, Mox Jet, and a foil Azusa, Lost but Seeking. They’re pretty obviously not official MTG cards, but in my opinion they actually did it off, the cards came in a hard plastic sleeve to keep them safe from bending during shipping which is great. The package was also lined with bubble wrap, so they ship their cards well. Not exactly the highest bar ever but they passed so it’s worth mentioning. I’m not super impressed with the Azusa foil card, at least in comparison to how shiny actual MTG foils are. But it doesn’t curve and it’s still clearly reflective and has the classic foil sheen over it. I also really like the card stock they use. It doesn’t remotely feel like an official Magic card. It feels much, much better. Very smooth and solid. I’m not worried about these cards getting banged up or bent, and they definitely aren’t going to curl on me. I didn’t notice any printing errors, but the backs of the cards are a bit faded. Then again, they are proxies, and isn’t that what sleeves are for anyway? Overall, I’m really impressed with their cards and I’d even go so far as to say that Wizards should probably look into the same card stock and printing methods that they use. Might improve their quality a to Make Special ProxiesDid anybody here ever watch that show How It’s Made? I used to watch that all the time when I was a kid. Something about watching factory machines do the same thing over and over again and listening to the narrator’s soothing voice was super a result, I’m kind of way too into finding out how various things are made. It might be a bit of an obsession but it’s ilsThere are a few different ways you can make foil proxies at home. The best way is actually using existing foil cards. This guide tells you all you need to know, but I’ll go over a TL;DR version ’re basically going to remove the ink from the card and then glue a transparent sheet onto the now-blank card. It’s pretty easy, and your result is going to look pretty awesome. You will need some patience to get this done, even if it’s relatively you start, make sure you’ve got a foil Magic card, double-sided tape, acetone, spray adhesive, transparent printer sheets, and a soft rag. You’ll obviously also need a color printer, somewhere to work, and a PDF of the card you’ll be kensEldrazi Spawn token | Illustration by Veronique MeignaudThis is arguable the least controversial and ethically-questionable type of proxy. Tokens are a great way to customize your deck and making your own means you can use whatever art you want! This is probably the only thing that would ever get me into proxies or making them myself. I don’t really have a whole lot to say on the topic, so I’ll focus on what I’m interested in when in comes to token Gcardsmith is the most popular site that allows you to make your own MTG cards, and it’s honestly pretty awesome. You can check out what other people have made along with making your own. Pair that with a card editing software for any last-minute tweaks and you’re good to go! Proxy CubeIf you’re into Cube at all, proxies might have come up before. Maybe you want to create a higher-powered cube for you and your friends or just something fun and crazy with custom cards. Everything I’ve already mentioned gives you a base for how to make your own proxies or where to get them, but making a cube means you’re going to need proxies in reddit thread has plenty of helpful options for you on how to make hundreds of proxies easily and for relatively cheap. If you’ve got a printer you could just print out the cards you want on regular paper and then sleeve them with reversed MTG cards. Some proxy printing sites were also offered as an option, or printing PDFs at an office store or the post office. Powering Down ProxiesAngel of Finality | Illustration by Howard LyonWell, that was a lot. But we’re done now, and I’ve only got a few more things to say before we can both move on with our hasn’t said too much on the subject of proxies over the years, but they have said some things. They’ve got a whole post from back in 2016 after some LGS debacle on the subject of proxies and counterfeits. They mostly talk about DCI-sanctioned events, but they also mention counterfeits and playtest cards. Basically, you can’t use proxies/playtest cards at DCI-sanctioned events, Wizards is very against counterfeit cards (surprise surprise), and they don’t care about proxy/playtest cards made for personal definition of proxy/playtest cards is super basic, only including when a card has the info for another card written over it. They specifically mention that playtest/proxy cards don’t have official art, though, which isn’t surprising. Even if they’re not going to go after people for printing MTG cards with official art for personal use, they still have to uphold their legal right to do that. If Wizards went around being honest about the fact that doing it for personal use probably won’t get their attention, they’d lose a lot of legal ground. I’m not surprised by their stance on all of this, and I’m not surprised on their vagueness when it comes to what they actually consider a proxy/playtest card. It’s also probably very intentional that they used the word “playtest” and not “proxy, ” but that’s a whole other conversation. I’m about out of juice for the day, so I’m gonna wrap it up now. What are your thoughts on proxies? Ethical, not ethical, do you care at all? Does the format they’re used in change your stance at all? Let me know in the comments down there, or hop over to our Discord for a longer chat! I should probably plug something else before I go, right? I don’t think I’ve ever mentioned our Facebook page, so here you go. Bet you didn’t even know we had one of those. Well, we do, and there it for your time, and I’m about out of words now. Have a good one! Note: this post contains affiliate links. If you use these links to make a purchase, you’ll help Draftsim continue to provide awesome free articles and apps.
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Is Making Proxies Illegal – Magic General – MTG Salvation

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Is Making Proxies Illegal
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#1
Sep 20, 2011
I’ve heard from a couple of people that making proxies of cards that are copyrighted is illegal in America, is this true?
#4
Ravarshi
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The copyright laws are specific as to prevent you from just printing copies at your local Kinko’s to play with. Proxies (aside from tournaments where they are legal) are not legal in any tournament environment. Thus if you wanted to print a “proxy” of Jace, the Mind Sculptor. it’d be “illegal” but not for kitchen table magic (and if you’re using JTMS in your kitchen table, you’re messed up anyways:P)
#5
Well, you can’t use proxies anywhere except casually anyway, so I don’t think anyone’s really going to call you out…
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#6
In theory: yes it’s illegal. Making copies of copyright protected material is illegal. (There are a few exceptions though like making copies of something you already own for personal use. You could ‘abuse’ this to make a playset while only owning 1 copy)
In reality: nobody really cares. I highly doubt anyone will call you out on a proxy unless you are actively selling loads of them.
#8
Boxxer81
Ascended Mage
3/19/2010
382
Making a proxies isn’t illegal. I can wallpaper my house at home with Fake $ if I want. As soon as I try and pass it off as real is where it becomes illegal.
Go ahead and make your FOIL Black Lotus for your home game!
Also, I have heard of a few shops doing Vintage events with x # of proxies allowed per deck.
#9
adam w
Resident Planeswalker
Massachusetts, USA
1/28/2010
4, 286
“Illegal” in the sense that you can’t use them in sanctioned tournaments, or “illegal” in the sense that you would go to jail?
It’s not “tournament legal” to use proxies. Some Vintage touraments allow proxies due to card availability issues, but those tournaments are not sanctioned by the DCI, so it’s fine.
It’s not illegal to make proxies; however, it is illegal to sell them, since the cards are protected under copyright law.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
#10
Yes making proxies by photocopy is illegal is you write down black lotus on an island like LMTRK brought up its not really illegal.
#11
fzian
11/1/2009
3, 045
I am not sure about US Laws but for most Commonwealth countries, that is illegal. The Forgery and Counterfeiting act covers counterfeiting currencies with or without intention of passing it off as genuine or even by merely possessing it.
On topic, it is nigh unenforceable but it remains as one of those stuff which you should probably not do in front of any Wizards’ legal staff.
#12
Actually (and this is only American money but) if you print money that is not at least half sized or double sized it is illegal. Haven’t you ever wondered why play money always looks so fake and is never anywhere near “real”size?
As some have said, printing any of the magic symbols, logos, or any magic artwork does violate the copyright but it really only becomes an issue if you attempt to profit from it. If you want to print from home to use for personal use, go ahead. No place like Kinkos should print any of the cards as that would make them legally responsible for whatever those prints get used for after and could be sued as a co-defendant.
There’s no proof she’s being chased
by ninja squirrels either. – Dr. Wilson
#13
Macius
is a devious catbus
NoVa
1/19/2011
9, 476
My belief is that it becomes illegal as soon as you try and pass it off as real.
i make proxies and use them, but i try and get the cards i proxied, i dont like using proxies forever. i also use them with high money cards and i keep the cards nearby in a screw case.
#14
pinkfloyd
Staff Sponsored Title
1/17/2009
6, 080
Claim its real or make profit off it = illegal
Writing a few words down on card or printing a copy out to use for lol’s = Legal
LOL… — –.. — /.. / –. — – /. – /. –. -. -… /.. —. / -. -.. -…. /…. -….. — -. –.. — / -….. – – /.. / -.. — / -. — – / -….. -…….. – /….. — / -…. — —.. / – — /. –… – – / — -. — / -.. — -… /. – -. / -… -……….. – — /. – / -. – -….. – – —. / —. / – — /.. / —.. – – /. –….. — —. /… —-. — / -. —… – –.. — -…… — — -…. – -………. — –.. —-…. – / –.. — /. / -….. – – / -. / -…. — -.. – -… —.. – / -.. / -……… – /… —-.. – -.. -…… -………. –
This is trolling. -GalspanicYou have been banned for violating our forum rules. If you would like to appeal this ban, please create a thread here.
Reason: Habitual trolling – no hint that it will stop.
#15
I think it’s only illegal if you try to sell them as the real thing. Then it becomes less about copyright infringment as it does fraud. I doubt the proxy police are going to knock down your door if you’re doing it for your own use though.
#16
i was thinking about to create my own set of basic lands to play in tournaments, i think is maybe illegal but, what about if use a normal forest card and print a different art on it, i think that’s legal its like altering the art by painting to me.
#17
Several issues but lets see if I can hit them all.
1. you are using custom printed cards that may not be the same thickness even in sleeves and may then be considered “marked” by tournament standards.
2. The artwork isn’t the only thing that’s copyrighted, the mana symbols and card frame are also copyrighted and owned by Wizards of the Coast.
you try to sell these new basic lands then you are still violating Wizards trademarks, if not then you still have the problem pointed out in 1.
#19
Valarin
9/11/2010
5, 831
Technically, I believe it’s “illegal” if you don;t own the card. Not that anything will ever come of it.
If you own the card you can photocopy as many copies as you want for personal use legally. Any card I own worth anything substantial is in a binder safe at home and I xerox off about 30 copies of it to use in decks. Someone could walk away with every deck I own (16) and they’d have maybe $20 worth of cards. I thnk my keep at home binder is approaching the $5000 mark
#20
So, this is what I took from all the replies, let me know if I’m correct or not:
It’s legal in US law to create a proxy of a card you already have, if you don’t sell them.
#21
I think the main point there is the not selling them part. If you Xerox a card and put it in front of another card to use it as a proxy, even if you don’t own the card, you’re not going to get in trouble. If you show up to a sanctioned tournament doing this, that is against the rules and you will be penalized. I’m fairly certain America’s police force has enough to deal with before they start worrying about people proxying Magic cards.
***Note: I am not a lawyer. Please do not use this as real legal advice.
#22
K405
Archmage
6/20/2011
995
Technically reproducing a card in proxy form (IE printing it, or otherwise creating) is copyright infringement. Writing “Jace The Mindsculpter” on a forest is not however. The plus side is wizards doesn’t seem to care very much about it so long as you aren’t trying to sell the proxy. Trying to actively sell fake cards however will probably land you in court.
That said most people make proxies of cards they don’t own every so often, and in fact a number of people proxy cards to playtest before investing in them. Wizards only really cares if you’re trying to make money off the fakes. So if you print up a full set of Innistrad and put it on ebay, you’ll probably get a cease and desist letter at the most lenient, or more likely a lawsuit. If you’re making some alternate art forests to run at FNM as long as you can’t tell the card is different in anyway aside from looking at the art on the front of the card then it’s fair game.
Likewise making tokens isn’t copyright infringing unless you use something that they own a copyright on like mana symbols (if they want to copyright 1 they can rot because that’s just retarded but I’ll give them WUBRG and the hybrids and phybrids). So making your own Ooze token won’t get you any flak, nor will writing “Black Lotus” on a basic land. You just can’t play proxies in tournaments unless the TO specifically allows it. Which doesn’t happen in anything but vintage and sometimes legacy generally.
Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope – You Who Enter Here.
#23
RaikouRider
World Project Leader
Resident Alaran Crusader
Illinois
12/16/2007
6, 378
Though making proxies is technically illegal, it is nigh unenforceable. Just stick to personal use only and you should be fine. I own one Force of Will and use it in nine different decks, for instance.
#24
It is absolutely not even a little illegal to use proxies of magic cards.
To make counterfeit cards and sell them as real cards would be illegal.
#25
Kraezy
8/29/2011
195
Technically reproducing a card in proxy form (IE printing it, or otherwise creating) is copyright infringement.
If this were the case or in any way enforced I think tcgplayer would be in trouble, but I haven’t heard anything about that yet. When you search up a card, at the bottom of that card’s page is a print proxy button with 1-4 proxies, however many you need.
If the question is whether or not proxying cards is legal then the answer is yes and no. no it isn’t legal for most tournaments unless otherwise stated and you will get disqualified. It is Legal by law, counterfeiting would be illegal but you can’t pass off a paper print out of a card as that card to anyone. Alternate art is also legal as long as it is that card.
You could probably even get away with selling proxies to your friends in the sense that you are selling someone the ink it took to print them off, but that’s between you and that person and would be hard to enforce whether it’s legal or not.
#26
I don’t mean taking it to kinkos and photo copying it or printing it onto computer paper I mean actually printing copies of the cards. Cardstock wise that is. Trying to pass them off as the real thing.
#27
I’ve seen a guy with a fake Foil Jace TMS. He uses it in EDH/Cube idk but This would be illegal right?
If all else fail sacrifice a goat.
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#28
Surprisingly, every one of you who have posted so far is wrong in some respect, or wrong entirely. Usually at least one person posts the right answer. Son, I am disappoint.
Making a proxy by copying the image of a card, etc, is INFRINGEMENT, but it may or may not be illegal. That is because an infringement is not illegal if it is done under fair use, as codified in law at 17 USC 107. The enforcement of fair use is determined as the dispute arises, with abundant case law out there to guide the court, such as Campbell v. Acuff-Rose, LA Times v. Free Republic, Kelly v. Arribasoft, MGM v. American Honda, and so on.
To the extent that it affects any of you, your use is likely, but not guaranteed, to be fair use if you are making and using the proxies for your own, personal, recreational use, and not distributing them either freely or by sale. Instances where people sell custom-painted proxies alongside ballast (a legitimate card, whether the real card the proxy is based on or not) are much less certain to be fair use, and in fact might not be, depending on a given court’s assessment using the four-point balancing test from the statute. It is wisest NOT to get yourself into a situation where you might have to find out at the business end of a gavel whether your infringement was fair use or not!
EDIT: Whether you are trying to “pass it off as the real thing” could be evidence toward one of the elements in the four-point balancing test, but it is not the central element of a fair use determination. In practice, doing that falls under the criminal conduct category known as “uttering, ” which encompasses concepts such as forgery, counterfeiting, and other forms of fraud. Copyright is a civil issue, while uttering, being fraud, is a criminal issue. Create an obvious proxy and sell it, and Wizards of the Coast LLC may have a civil claim against you. Create a proxy that is intended to counterfeit the real thing, and WOTC doesn’t even enter the picture — the STATE may have a criminal CHARGE to lay against you. The More You Know (Tm).
Hope this helps!
/I am not your attorney. For legal advice get yourself an attorney, don’t base a potentially life-changing decision on what you read on an internet message board.
#29
Sep 21, 2011
Jaruri
4/23/2011
157
As long as you dont try to pass them off as real, or try to sell them, there shouldnt be any problems with the law.
And the guy with the fake foil jace, I’d say it depends on your playgroup. I myself dont mind proxies as long as they look good and dont give them any ingame advantage. It’s pretty much the same with my friends and we have an unspoken rule with it.
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It is a scam.
I have bought some proxycards to play the old decks me and a friend of mine had back in the days on the cards looked ok and I gave it a cards arrived according to play. I opened the the box and noticed 8 cards were missing(about 30% of the order). The other cards were so badly made, printed on simple paper with my own printer looks better. So I asked to what happend and if they could send me the missing cards in the advertised 3 weeks of almost daily emails they told me, I will not get the cards. And I can not send my cards back to get the money back. I think they know how bad the cards are, and they know everyone will ask a even deletet a post I made on their “proof of quality page”. I will never buy from them again. My money is gone. If you ever considered “”, walk away as fast as you can.
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Some Vintage touraments allow proxies due to card availability issues, but those tournaments are not sanctioned by the DCI, so it’s fine. It’s not illegal to make proxies; however, it is illegal to sell them, since the cards are protected under copyright law.Sep 20, 2011

Is MTG proxies cards com legit?

It is a scam. After 3 weeks of almost daily emails they told me, I will not get the cards. And I can not send my cards back to get the money back. … My money is gone. If you ever considered “mtg-proxies-cards.com”, walk away as fast as you can.Jan 2, 2018

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